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@abulsme tweets from 2016-02-17 (UTC)

@abulsme tweets from 2016-02-15 (UTC)

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@ElecCollPolls tweets from 2016-02-14 (UTC)

@abulsme tweets from 2016-02-14 (UTC)

Democrats: Superdelegates are real, and here are 42 more for Clinton

Since the New Hampshire primary, I have seen a flurry of Facebook posts and numerous articles all over the place, first by people suddenly shocked to learn of the existence of superdelegates, then folks complaining about the DNC “screwing over” Sanders, and then folks claiming superdelegates should be ignored because they don’t matter. All this in response to places, like my site electiongraphs.com, that point out Clinton’s huge lead due to superdelegate counts.

My current chart of raw delegate totals looks like this:

chart-40

That is Clinton 461 to Sanders 50 including the latest updates that prompt this post.

The claim is that the Clinton lead here is a complete illusion. That counts that look like this are simply anti-Sanders propaganda meant to discourage Sanders voters, that looking at numbers like this is meaningless, and one should only look at “pledged” delegates, where the total right now would be Sanders 36, Clinton 32. That would indeed show a very different picture of the race. Sanders would actually be winning!

But really? Would that tell us where the race really is?

First of all, there isn’t any secret or underhanded manipulation. There are 32 delegates in New Hampshire. 24 of them were to be determined by the primary. Of these Sanders won 15 and Clinton won 9. Some of those are determined proportionately in each congressional district, some proportionately by the statewide results. Those numbers come straight from the votes. Just math.

Then there were also 8 “super delegates”. That is one Senator, one Representative, one Governor, and five members of the DNC. These are eight people who have names and have been known for ages. Six of those eight had declared they supported Clinton long before the primary. The other two haven’t publicly stated a preference yet. That means the delegate total in New Hampshire is now 15 to 15 with 2 not yet determined.

The Sanders folks might not like that, or like the existence of super delegates at all, but none of this is new or an unexpected manipulation or anything, it is simply how the race is structured. A lot of people are expressing shock because they are just now realizing this, but it is no surprise to anyone familiar with the Democratic primary process, and certainly Sanders’ campaign staff is quite familiar with it.

As we’ve chronicled here, Clinton started out with nearly 8% of the national convention delegates already in her column before the first votes were even cast in Iowa and New Hampshire. She has been working on cultivating those people since at least 2013, probably earlier. Sanders managed to get a handful of these folks, but not many. So he started out way behind, and had to get over 54% of the remaining delegates to be on a pace to catch up and win. A majority wasn’t good enough.

It isn’t a good spot to be in for him, and you might argue that super delegates shouldn’t exist. Yes, superdelegates were originally created and exist to give the party apparatus some buffer against a popularly supported insurgency, and that sounds like Sanders. But the superdelegates have existed for decades and they are a known part of the process.

So complaining about them at this point is along the same lines as complaining about the electoral college. The person complaining might be right that in some ways a straight popular vote would be more “fair”, but these were the rules of the game and anybody running knew the rules when they chose to play.

It wasn’t superdelegates specifically that made the difference, but remember that in 2008, Hillary Clinton won the popular vote in the Democratic primary process.* It was only the structure of the delegate race that won Obama the nomination. Because those were the rules of the game. That is still the case today. And that includes superdelegates.

OK, fine, but what about the fact that super-delegates can change their minds? Their votes aren’t locked in stone, and they certainly wouldn’t want to overturn the results if a candidate was winning all the contests and had a majority of the non-super delegates, right? So since they can change their minds and will probably support “the winner” we should ignore them, right?

Indeed, it is important to note that the super-delegates are real people and complete free agents. They can and do change their minds. And yes, superdelegates may be reluctant to be the deciding factor in a close race, but you can’t really say “the super delegates would do X”. It is 712 individual humans, who will each decide on their own what they want to do.

Many superdelegates have yet to express a preference at all and can probably be fairly easily swayed. They have not expressed an opinion for a reason, and may well go either way. Others have publicly supported Clinton, but it could be weak support and maybe they could be flipped if they were actually courted. Many others are actually actively working on the Clinton campaign in prominent state level roles. People in this last category are unlikely to change their votes unless or until Clinton herself drops out and asks them to. At the very extreme, Bill Clinton is a superdelegate. Is he going to vote for Sanders?

You really do have 712 different people, with 712 different reasons for their preferences, and 712 different degrees of how strongly they support their candidate.

If Sanders was serious about the superdelegates, he and his surrogates wouldn’t be pushing talking points about how superdelegates don’t matter and will vote for the popular winner so they should be ignored. Instead he would be heavily lobbying the currently uncommitted superdelegates to start backing him. They are a constituency to be courted. They are an IMPORTANT constituency to be courted.

If you were to see such movement, the first place you would detect it would probably be a higher percentage of currently uncommitted superdelegates raising their hands for Sanders when they do come out and reveal a preference.

Superdelegates who have already publicly stated they are supporting Clinton will probably not start actually flipping back to uncommitted or to Sanders until or unless things are actually looking very dire for Clinton.

If you do end up seeing Sanders winning more contests than he loses and building up a big lead in the regular non-super delegates, you may start to see both kinds of movement. After all, people like backing a winner. But if it happens, you will actually see that change happening in the delegate counts if you watch this site or one of the other places that include superdelegates in the totals. It will not be invisible.

There is no sign of any such movement yet.

Can Sanders win without flipping any Clinton superdelegates over to his side? Yes, of course he can. It is a high bar, but it is within the realm of possibility. He just needs to get about 55% of the remaining delegates.

Can Sanders win with even a smaller portion of the remaining delegates? Why yes, of course he can, if he starts convincing Clinton delegates to change their minds. But if that is going to happen, they have to actually be convinced to do so. Here is a list. Go start lobbying them. Try to change their minds. But nobody should be assuming that is automatic.

Yes, if Sanders ends up leading the non-superdelegate count at the end of the primary season and superdelegates are the only thing putting Clinton over the edge, there will be extreme pressure on the superdelegates to flip. But they still have to actually do so. And most likely, when they start waffling on their positions, they will actually say so, and we will know.

The delegate counts including superdelegates are NOT misleading. You just have to interpret them correctly… meaning that you know superdelegates are actual human beings that can change their minds, and you think about what situations might lead that to happen. But ignoring that they exist and just assuming that of course they will change their minds is extreme folly. It is sticking your head in the sand and ignoring reality. It is willfully blinding yourself in order to believe in an illusion instead. If and when the superdelegates start changing their minds, we will see it. Until or unless that happens, Clinton really does have a huge delegate lead that Sanders would have to overcome in order to win.

Meanwhile, as the Sanders camp has been complaining about superdelegates and how they don’t matter, superdelegate movement to Clinton has continued. Since the New Hampshire Primary results, I’ve added 44 additional superdelegates to Clinton’s column. Not all of these actually announced their support this last week, some did so months ago, but I just found the references more recently. Their support gets backdated in the charts and graphs to the date of the public source documenting their support. I also removed 2 Clinton superdelegates that had been accidentlly double counted. Net gain, Clinton +42.

There were no new Sanders superdelegates.

So where does that put us on “% of remaining delegates needed to win”?

chart-41

Clinton now needs only 45.18% of the remaining delegates to win.

Sanders needs 54.84%. Right before the Iowa caucuses, my best estimates were that sanders needed 54.22%. (Including pre-Iowa superdelegate preferences I know about now that weren’t included at the time, it would have been 54.65%.) So despite his close second in Iowa, and his win in New Hampshire, Sanders is worse off in the delegate race than he was before Iowa. But not by much… he has ALMOST been holding things steady. He needs to do better to catch up and win, but Iowa and New Hampshire are only a small portion of the overall delegates, so there is still a lot of room to maneuver.

The next delegate race is Nevada.

There are 35 delegates up for grabs in Nevada that will be determined by the caucuses there. Plus 8 superdelegates. Of these, 3 have already said they are for Clinton, and 1 has said they are for Sanders. So don’t be surprised when you see those added in at places showing the state delegate count. They aren’t part of the 35 determined by the caucus though.

Of the 35, Sanders needs to get 20 in order to be on a pace to catch up with Clinton. (Again, assuming no superdelegates change their minds, if a lot do, this number becomes lower.) The RCP average has Nevada at Clinton 47.5%, Sanders 36.0%. That certainly wouldn’t get Sanders the 20 delegates he needs, but that average only includes one post-New Hampshire poll, and that new poll shows the race tied. The Pollster average discounts the pre-New Hampshire results entirely and shows the race at 45% to 45%… a tie.

Delegate rules are tricky. In Nevada some delegates are determined at the congressional district level, others at the state level, there is rounding involved, etc, etc. It is also a multi-stage caucus process, not a primary, so the “real” delegate totals won’t be known until May. But we will have estimates.

Remember though that it is not that Sanders needs 54.84% of the popular vote. It is that he needs 20 of the 35 delegates. That is the number to watch.

And superdelegates of course. :-)

A final thought: It is very possible to catch up from a deficit. But catching up is much harder if you pretend you aren’t actually behind.

* It has been pointed out to me that this would likely not have been the case if Obama had, like Clinton, chosen to compete in Michigan despite DNC sanctions… Clinton essentially ran unopposed in Michigan and this margin was enough to put her in the lead in the national popular vote. If you do not include Michigan, Obama lead the popular vote in 2008. This does not however change the point, which was that there are many ways that the delegate rules can lead to results that differ from the popular vote, of which the superdelegates are only one.

Note: This post is an update based on the data on ElectionGraphs.com. Election Graphs tracks both a poll based estimate of the Electoral College and a numbers based look at the Delegate Races. All of the charts and graphs seen in this post are from that site. Additional graphs, charts and raw data can be found there. All charts above are clickable to go to the current version of the detail page the chart is from, which may contain more up to date information than the snapshots on this page, which were current as of the time of this post. Follow @ElectionGraphs on Twitter or like Election Graphs on Facebook to see announcements of updates or to join the conversation. For those interested in individual general election poll updates, follow @ElecCollPolls on Twitter for all the polls as they are added.

[Edit 18:06 to add link to Wikipedia superdelegate list.]

[Edit 18:48 to add final thought.]

[Edit 2016-02-16 06:50 UTC to add asterisk note about Michigan.]

@abulsme tweets from 2016-02-13 (UTC)

@ElectionGraphs tweets from 2016-02-12 (UTC)

@ElecCollPolls tweets from 2016-02-12 (UTC)

@abulsme tweets from 2016-02-12 (UTC)

  • 01:29:34 Retweeted @JAdomian 01:06:15 Went to a Trump rally in New Hampshire this week. Hard to describe the vibe, but "what if the Nazis didn't care about fitness?" comes close.
  • 01:56:57 Another debate? Really? Haven’t we had enough?
  • 01:57:03 Retweeted @MrWalterShapiro 01:56:14 I am kinda hoping that on a whim Joe Biden shows up for tonight's debate.
  • 02:01:15 Oops -> Cruz Campaign Removes Ad Featuring Softcore Porn Actress (Kaczynski/Massie) https://t.co/YYFa5YKMu7
  • 02:02:26 Debate! Woo!
  • 02:04:44 Hey, all the candidates managed to walk on stage without a malfunction!
  • 02:15:18 Sanders repeated “let me repeat it”.
  • 02:16:18 Retweeted @DanielLarison 02:16:07 Clinton: "I took on the health care companies and the insurance companies." And you lost
  • 02:17:02 Retweeted @sahilkapur 02:16:29 "Before it was called Obamacare it was called Hillarycare."

    Fact check: Not really!

    https://t.co/7PFA28ogit

  • 02:18:37 Retweeted @BuzzFeedAndrew 02:18:30 This is the same debate as last debate.
  • 02:19:27 Retweeted @MikeGrunwald 02:19:15 Hillary can't win a who's-the-real-progressive fight. She can win a who's-closer-to-Obama fight and a who-can-fight-Republicans fight.
  • 02:22:43 Honestly so tired of these debates at this point. I know most people don’t watch all of them, but for those of us who have…
  • 02:24:55 Retweeted @PeteDominick 02:24:27 Hilary is saying we CANT do these things he wants to.Then he is explaining why we can & how he will.She isn't winning this debate right now
  • 02:24:58 Retweeted @stephenfhayes 02:23:54 Big part of HRC's challenge is that so many Dem base voters don't want to *believe* that Sanders' proposals are impractical. #demdebate
  • 02:25:31 Clinton coming off as Mrs. No is not a good strategy. She really isn’t that great at this.
  • 02:26:28 Retweeted @kstansbu 02:26:21 Can we all just vote now? I'd rather eat kale than read another political tweet.
  • 02:27:36 BTW, recorded a new Curmudgeon’s Corner last night, just haven’t had a chance to get it out yet. Hopefully in the next few hours.
  • 02:37:27 This debate makes me weary. Or maybe I was weary already.
  • 02:39:54 Lots of popping on Hillary’s microphone. Very distracting.
  • 02:41:49 Guess Bernie is popping too.
  • 02:41:56 Retweeted @TheFix 02:41:49 The 2016 race in 2-ish words: Incrementalism vs idealism
  • 02:50:09 Retweeted @INJO 02:49:53 Meanwhile, in Washington… #DemDebate https://t.co/uRKslGaafZ
  • 02:50:49 I understand why he didn’t, but I really wish Biden was a third person on this stage right now.
  • 02:54:07 Sanders is doing better than Clinton tonight. More passion. More compelling. Even if Hillary’s pragmatism may be more realistic.
  • 02:55:23 I’m really eager to see some fresh Nevada and South Carolina polls.
  • 02:55:31 Retweeted @kmillard 02:55:12 @BuzzFeedAndrew https://t.co/E2KHQ1s3PL in reply to BuzzFeedAndrew
  • 02:59:37 Retweeted @MatthewKeysLive 02:59:30 Someone should create a supercut of tonight’s debate highlighting each time Sanders & Clinton have said they agree with each other.
  • 03:03:14 Retweeted @bennyjohnson 03:03:03 Can we PLEASE stop with the "I don't know anything. We don't coordinate!" Super PAC bullshit. Everyone on DC knows it's not true.
  • 03:05:21 Bored of Clinton using Obama as an example of how you can do something counter to donations. No examples using herself as Senator?
  • 03:06:23 Retweeted @TimFernholz 03:05:50 actually, there are liberal people who work on Wall Street who give money to Clinton for reasons unrelated to business
  • 03:06:36 Retweeted @mattyglesias 03:06:23 I kinda do think half these Wall Street guys are throwing money around just for fun. Right to Rise, anyone?
  • 03:09:40 Break time. Think it will be long enough for me to take a nap?
  • 03:14:35 No nap. Oh well.
  • 03:16:01 Retweeted @danpfeiffer 03:00:48 Sanders & Clinton are playing by 2 set of rules. She's constrained by political reality; Sanders isn't. That's a hard game for her to win
  • 03:17:14 Retweeted @Max_Fisher 03:16:19 AUDIENCE QUESTION: which government programs would you cut

    SANDERS: the bad ones
    CLINTON: same the bad ones don’t worry about which

  • 03:17:34 Retweeted @jbview 03:17:11 Bernie flubs waste in gov't answer – then interrupts to give his defense dep't answer he should have given the first time. #oops
  • 03:23:43 What was that finger wag thing Sanders just did?
  • 03:25:41 Retweeted @anamariecox 03:25:33 Martin O’Malley crying into his hands rn, mumbling something about “I said more debates, I wanted more debates…”
  • 03:25:54 Retweeted @ComfortablySmug 03:25:40 Bernie says Hillary is a friend. Hillary looks at him like she wants to stab and vivisect him live on stage
  • 03:26:51 They both look so tied.
  • 03:27:11 Kissinger argument!
  • 03:28:33 Clinton replies by actually defending Kissinger? Really?
  • 03:29:42 Bernie already has the millennials. Bringing up events of the 60’s and 70’s is trying to target boomers, Clinton’s core.
  • 03:30:23 Retweeted @JFKucinich 03:30:13 Dear Republicans, the Democrats are currently debating the Nixon era …
  • 03:30:41 Retweeted @lizcgoodwin 03:29:19 This debate just got SUPER baby boomer
  • 03:30:50 Retweeted @NPRinskeep 03:30:41 This argument about Kissinger is actually meaningful. "I listen to everybody" vs "I don't listen to certain people" an important difference.
  • 03:31:33 Retweeted @bencasselman 03:30:56 Well of course the young folk love Bernie. All I ever hear Millennials talk about is the domino theory and the Cambodian genocide.
  • 03:31:54 Retweeted @daveweigel 03:31:43 We've gotten past the Kissinger segment, but what do these candidates think of China's aggression toward Quemoy and Matsu?
  • 03:32:06 Retweeted @TimothyNoah1 03:31:59 Henry Kissinger, at 92, is still a topic for political debate. How many officials four decades out of office can say same?
  • 03:32:29 Retweeted @nxthompson 03:27:43 Hillary: "I killed Bin Laden"
    Sanders: "I will kill Henry Kissinger"
  • 03:32:34 Retweeted @WaPoSean 2016-02-11 19:19:26 BREAKING: Rubio says the Twix bar that broke his tooth was frozen.
  • 03:33:32 Retweeted @igorvolsky 03:25:46 Bernie had months to develop a detailed progressive foreign policy. He hasn't. This leads me to believe that he's not very interested in it
  • 03:42:41 Missed the last 10 minutes or so due to homework drama. Did I miss anything good?
  • 03:44:09 Retweeted @EvanMcSan 03:43:58 i don't know why you all are so surprised the guy who talks about the 1932 election and re-litigates Vietnam is winning the youth vote
  • 03:44:37 We’re talking about Churchill now?
  • 03:49:42 “One of us ran against Barack Obama, that was not me”. HRC looked like she wanted to strangle him for that.
  • 03:49:58 Retweeted @hominidviews 03:49:29 Waiting anxiously for Robert E. Lee…. https://t.co/FZsHUf8eWj
  • 03:50:26 Retweeted @hominidviews 03:50:19 Man…Democrats SUCK at negative campaigning. #DemDebate
  • 03:50:46 Retweeted @hunterschwarz 03:50:17 Clinton's face when Sanders said, "One of us ran against Barack Obama. I was not that candidate." https://t.co/2Eo3TJD2T3
  • 03:52:24 Retweeted @alexburnsNYT 03:49:56 End of debate tees up Clinton to fly into South Carolina and go *all out* on Sanders as Obama critic
  • 03:52:33 Retweeted @PoliticoCharlie 03:50:34 Bernie is only politician who can name check Herbert Hoover, FDR, Teddy Roosevelt, Churchill & Mossadegh and still kill it w/the youth vote
  • 03:53:04 Retweeted @aedwardslevy 03:52:55 Between Hillary Clinton's agreeing and Bernie Sanders' friends, this is maybe the world's most passive-aggressive debate
  • 03:53:35 Retweeted @TheFix 03:53:27 That debate finished seven minutes early. God bless you PBS. God bless each and every one of you.
  • 03:54:41 And the debate is over! I think the Clinton/Sanders lines are pretty set though, won’t move polls. Sanders NH win might. Some. Not enough.
  • 03:56:14 OK, off to do other things for a bit. Then I have to get the podcast out and do a Dem superdelegate update before bed tonight. ZZZzzz…
  • 04:30:57 Retweeted @robyoon 04:22:27 Tonight marked Hillary Clinton's 25th presidential debate. The 1st was on 4/26/2007. #DemDebate #CNNElection https://t.co/m6XR4SR0lB
  • 04:33:11 Retweeted @NickKristof 04:18:41 On my timeline, both Clinton and Sanders fans agree that the debate was a knockout. They just disagree about who won.
  • 04:40:07 Retweeted @JimmyPrinceton 04:06:10 Millennials don't know who Kissinger is but the older liberals supporting Hillary do. Smart play.
  • 07:03:43 Retweeted @ow 06:40:57 beautiful video of windows 95's launch https://t.co/ETeR0JQK2d
  • 07:48:46 Retweeted @daveweigel 03:42:58 The Sanders campaign rapid response on Kissinger is straight fire https://t.co/d8CUNsF3nN
  • 14:57:07 Of course, didn’t get to either of those before falling asleep. Trying to squeeze them both in before work this morning… in reply to abulsme
  • 15:13:22 [Abulpost] Curmudgeon's Corner: Embrace the Mud! https://t.co/pb5LrvEk9A
  • 18:06:44 Retweeted @africa_focus 17:15:36 @abulsme Yes, but changing the superdelegates' position or rules is easier than getting rid of the electoral college! in reply to abulsme
  • 18:07:34 .@africa_focus Very true! Supers can change their minds any time, and changing rules only takes a vote at the convention! in reply to africa_focus
  • 18:20:31 Not finished processing new superdelegate info for today, but the day job calls. I will try to finish up tonight. Net +11 Clinton so far.
  • 18:32:58 First post NH polls showing Trump consolidating his lead and Sanders closing on Clinton. Fun!!
  • 22:03:13 I feel like I should say something about Gilmore, but I have nothing to say.